How Fox’s Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum are thinking about the Trump debate question

As the first GOP primary debate creeps ever closer, all eyes are — as they have been for much of the race so far — on Donald Trump.

The former president has publicly weighed the pros and cons of facing his opponents on the debate stage in Milwaukee next week, calling it a potentially “stupid” idea and polling crowds on their opinions during his campaign rallies.

But even if Trump does ditch the event in favor of his own counterprogramming, as he’s suggested he will, his presence will inevitably loom large, Fox News’ debate moderators say.

“If he’s not there, he’ll still be there,” FOX host Bret Baier said in an interview. “In other words, he’ll be a part of questioning. There may be sound bites, there may be elements where ‘this is what the leader of the primary says about this issue.’ He’ll be there, even if he’s not there.”

Baier and his fellow moderator, Martha MacCallum, are preparing for both scenarios.

“For the most part, we talk about subjects as buckets of questions,” Baier said. “The buckets wouldn’t change that much whether he’s in or not. Maybe some of the interaction between candidates would change a bit.”

MacCallum said: “We will have questions for every candidate up there, including former President Trump if he decides to join us.”

As of Tuesday, eight candidates had met the RNC’s polling and donor requirements to be on the first debate stage. In addition to Trump, Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, Mike Pence, Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott and Doug Burgum have all reached the RNC’s benchmarks. Asa Hutchinson has met the polling requirement, while Francis Suarez and Perry Johnson have both racked up the necessary donors.

Both Baier and MacCallum said they didn’t expect other candidates would qualify before the deadline, but “there’s still time for that to change,” MacCallum told POLITICO.

Candidates are also required to sign a “loyalty pledge,” committing to support the eventual nominee in the general election.

Haley, Scott, Ramaswamy, Burgum and DeSantis have all signed. Christie and Pence have also said they’ll sign it, and Hutchinson and Suarez intend to as well — if they hit the other requirements in time. Only Trump and former Rep. Will Hurd, a long-shot Trump critic, have said they won’t agree to the pledge.

The candidates who do make it to the stage at Fiserv Forum won’t deliver opening statements, though they will have 45 seconds for closing remarks at the end of the two-hour event.

“The goal is to jump right in, and to get right to the news of the day,” MacCallum said.

Each candidate will have one minute to answer a question and an additional 30 seconds for follow-ups. Whether Trump shows or not, his legal troubles will make it into the conversation.

“Obviously, it’s a big part of this primary,” Baier said.

The former president’s indictment late Monday — by a grand jury in Fulton County, Ga., over his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 — was the latest in a series of state and federal criminal charges that have been brought against him in recent months. His mounting legal cases, however, appear to have only bolstered his position in the polls as the Republican frontrunner.

As the current top candidate, Trump “absolutely” should join his opponents on stage, MacCallum said.

“I think every voter that I talked to says that they would like to see him there,” she said. “They want the opportunity to vet all of these candidates equally and to watch them answer these questions.”

And his attendance wouldn’t be bad for Fox’s ratings, either.

“Will ratings be higher with Donald Trump on the stage? Of course, of course. He always creates fireworks,” Baier said.

But if he doesn’t show, it doesn’t necessarily make the event a bust.

“If he does not come, that heightens the drama to be the candidate that becomes the ‘not Trump’ candidate,” Baier said. “Because that’s eventually what this GOP primary is going to come down to — is the former president, likely against someone else that voters decide is the alternative to him. And it’s early in the process, … but that lifts up that whole battle onstage.”