‘Beyond My Wildest Dreams’: Project 2025's Chief Architect Prepares for His Victory Lap
Paul Dans, the removed director of Project 2025, expresses his happiness that Trump is, in fact, putting his agenda into action.
TroibNews 
A year ago, Paul Dans served as the chief architect of what seemed to be the foundation for Donald Trump’s second presidential term. Eight months ago, he was ousted from the MAGA movement.
At the Heritage Foundation, Dans directed Project 2025, but as the 2024 presidential campaign progressed, he and his initiative became a significant political liability for Trump. Democrats criticized Project 2025’s “radical” agenda, suggesting it would impose a ban on abortion, dismantle LGBTQ+ rights, and grant the president excessive power over federal agencies, including abolishing some, like the Department of Education. At the Democratic National Convention, Saturday Night Live’s Kenan Thompson humorously presented a giant version of the 900-page Project 2025 book, noting, “You ever see a document that could kill a small animal and democracy at the same time? Here it is.”
Conservatives began to hold Heritage and Project 2025 accountable, blaming them for negatively impacting Trump’s chances in the election. Trump himself claimed ignorance about Project 2025, stating on Truth Social that he had “no idea who is behind it.” Chris LaCivita, a Trump campaign adviser, expressed dissatisfaction during a PMG Deep Dive podcast, remarking, “there was some stuff in there that we were like, ‘Where the hell did that come from?’”
Dans eventually stepped down amid mounting pressure, leaving Heritage in July and later critiquing LaCivita and fellow campaign head Susie Wiles for their “malpractice” during the campaign.
Now residing in Charleston, South Carolina, Dans works as a lawyer and government relations consultant. He has moved on from past grievances and expressed satisfaction with how Project 2025 has been adopted as the operational blueprint for the Trump administration.
In his first in-depth interview since Trump’s return to the presidency, Dans essentially confirmed criticisms voiced by Democrats and denied by Trump—that Project 2025 and Trump’s recent initiatives share significant similarities. He added that he would welcome the opportunity to rejoin the administration.
“It’s actually way beyond my wildest dreams,” Dans said. He noted, “It’s not going to be the easiest road to hoe going forward. The deep state is going to get its breath back. But the way that they’ve been able to move and upset the orthodoxy, and at the same time really capture the imagination of the people, I think portends a great four years.”
When asked if there is a significant alignment between Trump’s administration and Project 2025, Dans responded, “I'm not saying that. I'm saying that directionally, they have a lot in common, but so do great minds. We had hoped, those of us who worked putting together Project 2025, that the next conservative president would seize the day, but Trump is seizing every minute of every hour.” He emphasized that implementing Project 2025 required Trump's unique ability to unite people and Elon Musk’s capacity to direct efforts.
He confirmed that what is currently being enacted largely mirrors Project 2025, while also stating that Trump’s earlier claims of having no connection to the project were true, as it was developed independently by the conservative movement.
Dans discussed how the agenda to confront the perceived liberal influence within the federal administrative state stretches back over a century, dating to Woodrow Wilson’s era.
“Well, that’s right. We are going on our 250th birthday here in a little over a year from now,” he said. “And the last 100 years have been a great diversion from the enduring constitutional structure of this great American experiment in democracy.” He believes that reforming the federal government is critical to restoring democratic principles disrupted by the Progressive Era and an expanding expert class.
He asserted that the Constitution grants all executive power to the president, and developments over the last century have posed not only constitutional challenges but threats to democracy itself. “A president is elected every four years to propose and implement policies, and if those are blocked by an unaccountable bureaucracy, that necessitates reform.”
However, Dans acknowledged that the scope of presidential power is still up for debate amid concerns that the executive should adhere to the will of Congress, even when policies conflict with presidential beliefs.
“I think what we’re engaging in is going to be a constitutional debate on the order of what happened in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787,” Dans remarked, noting that the system requires each branch of government to fulfill its constitutional duties, and when there is overlap, it is a matter for the public to navigate.
As a lawyer, Dans recognized that the judiciary, including the Supreme Court, has challenged Trump’s actions in various cases. He dismissed many lower court decisions that have blocked Trump’s initiatives, arguing about the need for constitutional order versus improper judicial overreach.
“Judges have blocked the freezing of foreign aid… A federal judge and its three law clerks cannot usurp the power granted to the president,” he argued, suggesting that such actions represent an encroachment on presidential authority.
When confronted with Trump's administration's focus on fraudulent spending, particularly within Social Security, Dans contended that while there might not be massive fraud as suggested, problems exist with the system’s fundamental structure that complicates oversight and auditing.
“I don't believe that's true at all,” he argued. "What DOGE uncovered is that the fundamental controls in the financial system aren't there."
Reflecting on his experience at the Office of Personnel Management and the broader implications of personnel reforms, he critiqued the current civil service structure as overly protective and unresponsive, arguing that significant overhaul is necessary.
While he acknowledged potential individual cases of mistreatment among federal employees, Dans maintained that the overall system is broken, producing inefficiencies that hamper government function.
As for possible differences between Project 2025 and current actions, he described Project 2025 as a foundational resource that aimed to guide future reforms but noted that some existing agencies might have become too corrupted for minor adjustments.
Dan insisted that essential reforms are in line with what voters desire, noting that USAID had deviated from its intended mission under recent administrations and thus a fresh start may be warranted.
He expressed awareness that some of his previous critiques of the Trump campaign might have been foregone regrets, but maintained his belief in the necessity of reform.
Ultimately, Dans conveyed that while he remains committed to his legal career and family, he is open to rejoining the administration and contributing to the agenda that Project 2025 aimed to establish. “I do one day aspire to rejoin public service,” he stated. “So I would say, ‘Watch this space.’”As Dans reflects on his evolving relationship with the Trump administration and the broader conservative movement, he acknowledges the complexities and challenges of implementing a comprehensive agenda like Project 2025. He emphasizes the need for unity and clarity in messaging, particularly as the political landscape grows increasingly contentious.
Dans points out that the opposition's narrative often sets the tone for public discourse, making it vital for conservative leaders to present a coherent and compelling vision. He believes that a strong defense of the principles laid out in Project 2025 will be essential as they navigate the obstacles ahead.
“I think it’s critical that we maintain our focus on the core issues that resonate with the American people,” Dans suggested. “The key is to ensure that we articulate the benefits of our proposals clearly and align them with the values that drive our movement.”
Moreover, he underscores the importance of harnessing the momentum generated during the election cycle to enact real change. Dans sees the current administration's opportunity to reshape not just policies but also the perception of government and its role in the lives of American citizens.
“We have to communicate effectively why these changes are necessary and how they will ultimately empower individuals rather than create reliance on government,” he said. “Restoring faith in our institutions begins with demonstrating real results and accountability.”
When discussing specific policy goals, Dans reiterates the need to tackle systemic issues like wasteful spending, bureaucratic inefficiency, and the overreach of federal authority. He believes that the administration’s success hinges on its ability to dismantle entrenched obstacles while fostering an environment conducive to innovative solutions.
Dans recognizes that, while ambitious reform is crucial, it also requires careful orchestration to avoid backlash and to maintain public support. “Change is never easy, especially when it threatens established interests,” he cautioned. “But the key is to remain steadfast in our mission and to engage with the public throughout the process.”
As for potential future roles within the administration, Dans remains open yet pragmatic. He understands that the evolving political landscape necessitates adaptability and responsiveness. “I’m committed to the cause, and if an opportunity arises where I can be of service, I’ll be ready to contribute,” he remarked, highlighting his dedication to the mission over any personal aspirations.
Reflecting on the nature of governance and the ongoing debate surrounding the role of federal agencies, Dans emphasizes the need for a measured approach. He asserts that effective reform will require not only strong leadership but also a willingness to engage with diverse viewpoints within the Republican Party and beyond.
“There’s a broader conversation to be had about what we want our government to be and how best to achieve it,” he explained. “It’s not just about cutting agencies; it’s about redefining their purpose and ensuring they serve the needs of the people.”
In today's politically charged environment, Dans acknowledges that finding common ground can be challenging. However, he remains optimistic about the potential for constructive dialogue among conservatives, urging a recommitment to principles that unite rather than divide.
“Ultimately, we cannot afford to fracture our coalition,” he argued. “Collaboration among various factions of the conservative movement is essential to realizing the vision we laid out in Project 2025.”
As the Trump administration embarks on its next chapter, Dans's insights reflect both the aspirations and the realities of implementing bold reforms within a deeply polarized political landscape. Whether he finds his way back into the administration or continues in his current legal and consulting roles, his commitment to advancing conservative principles remains unwavering.
Dans's journey serves as a fascinating lens through which to view the unfolding dynamics of American politics, particularly within the GOP, as it navigates its future trajectory amidst both challenge and opportunity. He represents a segment of the conservative movement that is eager to redefine governance while firmly rooting itself in the foundational ideas of the past—a blend of ambition and reverence for the country’s democratic principles that could significantly influence the course ahead. As he himself states, the election cycle is merely a starting point, and the journey toward enacting meaningful change is expected to extend far beyond any single administration.
Max Fischer for TROIB News
At the Heritage Foundation, Dans directed Project 2025, but as the 2024 presidential campaign progressed, he and his initiative became a significant political liability for Trump. Democrats criticized Project 2025’s “radical” agenda, suggesting it would impose a ban on abortion, dismantle LGBTQ+ rights, and grant the president excessive power over federal agencies, including abolishing some, like the Department of Education. At the Democratic National Convention, Saturday Night Live’s Kenan Thompson humorously presented a giant version of the 900-page Project 2025 book, noting, “You ever see a document that could kill a small animal and democracy at the same time? Here it is.”
Conservatives began to hold Heritage and Project 2025 accountable, blaming them for negatively impacting Trump’s chances in the election. Trump himself claimed ignorance about Project 2025, stating on Truth Social that he had “no idea who is behind it.” Chris LaCivita, a Trump campaign adviser, expressed dissatisfaction during a PMG Deep Dive podcast, remarking, “there was some stuff in there that we were like, ‘Where the hell did that come from?’”
Dans eventually stepped down amid mounting pressure, leaving Heritage in July and later critiquing LaCivita and fellow campaign head Susie Wiles for their “malpractice” during the campaign.
Now residing in Charleston, South Carolina, Dans works as a lawyer and government relations consultant. He has moved on from past grievances and expressed satisfaction with how Project 2025 has been adopted as the operational blueprint for the Trump administration.
In his first in-depth interview since Trump’s return to the presidency, Dans essentially confirmed criticisms voiced by Democrats and denied by Trump—that Project 2025 and Trump’s recent initiatives share significant similarities. He added that he would welcome the opportunity to rejoin the administration.
“It’s actually way beyond my wildest dreams,” Dans said. He noted, “It’s not going to be the easiest road to hoe going forward. The deep state is going to get its breath back. But the way that they’ve been able to move and upset the orthodoxy, and at the same time really capture the imagination of the people, I think portends a great four years.”
When asked if there is a significant alignment between Trump’s administration and Project 2025, Dans responded, “I'm not saying that. I'm saying that directionally, they have a lot in common, but so do great minds. We had hoped, those of us who worked putting together Project 2025, that the next conservative president would seize the day, but Trump is seizing every minute of every hour.” He emphasized that implementing Project 2025 required Trump's unique ability to unite people and Elon Musk’s capacity to direct efforts.
He confirmed that what is currently being enacted largely mirrors Project 2025, while also stating that Trump’s earlier claims of having no connection to the project were true, as it was developed independently by the conservative movement.
Dans discussed how the agenda to confront the perceived liberal influence within the federal administrative state stretches back over a century, dating to Woodrow Wilson’s era.
“Well, that’s right. We are going on our 250th birthday here in a little over a year from now,” he said. “And the last 100 years have been a great diversion from the enduring constitutional structure of this great American experiment in democracy.” He believes that reforming the federal government is critical to restoring democratic principles disrupted by the Progressive Era and an expanding expert class.
He asserted that the Constitution grants all executive power to the president, and developments over the last century have posed not only constitutional challenges but threats to democracy itself. “A president is elected every four years to propose and implement policies, and if those are blocked by an unaccountable bureaucracy, that necessitates reform.”
However, Dans acknowledged that the scope of presidential power is still up for debate amid concerns that the executive should adhere to the will of Congress, even when policies conflict with presidential beliefs.
“I think what we’re engaging in is going to be a constitutional debate on the order of what happened in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787,” Dans remarked, noting that the system requires each branch of government to fulfill its constitutional duties, and when there is overlap, it is a matter for the public to navigate.
As a lawyer, Dans recognized that the judiciary, including the Supreme Court, has challenged Trump’s actions in various cases. He dismissed many lower court decisions that have blocked Trump’s initiatives, arguing about the need for constitutional order versus improper judicial overreach.
“Judges have blocked the freezing of foreign aid… A federal judge and its three law clerks cannot usurp the power granted to the president,” he argued, suggesting that such actions represent an encroachment on presidential authority.
When confronted with Trump's administration's focus on fraudulent spending, particularly within Social Security, Dans contended that while there might not be massive fraud as suggested, problems exist with the system’s fundamental structure that complicates oversight and auditing.
“I don't believe that's true at all,” he argued. "What DOGE uncovered is that the fundamental controls in the financial system aren't there."
Reflecting on his experience at the Office of Personnel Management and the broader implications of personnel reforms, he critiqued the current civil service structure as overly protective and unresponsive, arguing that significant overhaul is necessary.
While he acknowledged potential individual cases of mistreatment among federal employees, Dans maintained that the overall system is broken, producing inefficiencies that hamper government function.
As for possible differences between Project 2025 and current actions, he described Project 2025 as a foundational resource that aimed to guide future reforms but noted that some existing agencies might have become too corrupted for minor adjustments.
Dan insisted that essential reforms are in line with what voters desire, noting that USAID had deviated from its intended mission under recent administrations and thus a fresh start may be warranted.
He expressed awareness that some of his previous critiques of the Trump campaign might have been foregone regrets, but maintained his belief in the necessity of reform.
Ultimately, Dans conveyed that while he remains committed to his legal career and family, he is open to rejoining the administration and contributing to the agenda that Project 2025 aimed to establish. “I do one day aspire to rejoin public service,” he stated. “So I would say, ‘Watch this space.’”As Dans reflects on his evolving relationship with the Trump administration and the broader conservative movement, he acknowledges the complexities and challenges of implementing a comprehensive agenda like Project 2025. He emphasizes the need for unity and clarity in messaging, particularly as the political landscape grows increasingly contentious.
Dans points out that the opposition's narrative often sets the tone for public discourse, making it vital for conservative leaders to present a coherent and compelling vision. He believes that a strong defense of the principles laid out in Project 2025 will be essential as they navigate the obstacles ahead.
“I think it’s critical that we maintain our focus on the core issues that resonate with the American people,” Dans suggested. “The key is to ensure that we articulate the benefits of our proposals clearly and align them with the values that drive our movement.”
Moreover, he underscores the importance of harnessing the momentum generated during the election cycle to enact real change. Dans sees the current administration's opportunity to reshape not just policies but also the perception of government and its role in the lives of American citizens.
“We have to communicate effectively why these changes are necessary and how they will ultimately empower individuals rather than create reliance on government,” he said. “Restoring faith in our institutions begins with demonstrating real results and accountability.”
When discussing specific policy goals, Dans reiterates the need to tackle systemic issues like wasteful spending, bureaucratic inefficiency, and the overreach of federal authority. He believes that the administration’s success hinges on its ability to dismantle entrenched obstacles while fostering an environment conducive to innovative solutions.
Dans recognizes that, while ambitious reform is crucial, it also requires careful orchestration to avoid backlash and to maintain public support. “Change is never easy, especially when it threatens established interests,” he cautioned. “But the key is to remain steadfast in our mission and to engage with the public throughout the process.”
As for potential future roles within the administration, Dans remains open yet pragmatic. He understands that the evolving political landscape necessitates adaptability and responsiveness. “I’m committed to the cause, and if an opportunity arises where I can be of service, I’ll be ready to contribute,” he remarked, highlighting his dedication to the mission over any personal aspirations.
Reflecting on the nature of governance and the ongoing debate surrounding the role of federal agencies, Dans emphasizes the need for a measured approach. He asserts that effective reform will require not only strong leadership but also a willingness to engage with diverse viewpoints within the Republican Party and beyond.
“There’s a broader conversation to be had about what we want our government to be and how best to achieve it,” he explained. “It’s not just about cutting agencies; it’s about redefining their purpose and ensuring they serve the needs of the people.”
In today's politically charged environment, Dans acknowledges that finding common ground can be challenging. However, he remains optimistic about the potential for constructive dialogue among conservatives, urging a recommitment to principles that unite rather than divide.
“Ultimately, we cannot afford to fracture our coalition,” he argued. “Collaboration among various factions of the conservative movement is essential to realizing the vision we laid out in Project 2025.”
As the Trump administration embarks on its next chapter, Dans's insights reflect both the aspirations and the realities of implementing bold reforms within a deeply polarized political landscape. Whether he finds his way back into the administration or continues in his current legal and consulting roles, his commitment to advancing conservative principles remains unwavering.
Dans's journey serves as a fascinating lens through which to view the unfolding dynamics of American politics, particularly within the GOP, as it navigates its future trajectory amidst both challenge and opportunity. He represents a segment of the conservative movement that is eager to redefine governance while firmly rooting itself in the foundational ideas of the past—a blend of ambition and reverence for the country’s democratic principles that could significantly influence the course ahead. As he himself states, the election cycle is merely a starting point, and the journey toward enacting meaningful change is expected to extend far beyond any single administration.
Max Fischer for TROIB News
